27 May 2019

Back on my bullshit and working on Shardheim

Saving Throws and Math Retro vs 3.x DnD


I think soon I'm going to talk shit about why I hate ability score based saving throws and the confusing AF old school saving throws are superior. Hint: fighter don't get fucked against fire balls.
Btw that's one of the reasons old school saves are superior to ability based saves. The difficulty of saves goes up alongside, or outstripping, the bonus in 3.x and newer editions.
For 3.x/PF I'm going to assume a PC spellcaster with casting ability score of 16 and no ability boosting items casting a spell that requires a reflex saving throw at a fighter and a thief, w/ dex 16 in 2 level intervals and comparing it to the 1e saving throw vs breath weapon.
Lvl 1, 1st lvl spell 3.x DC 14; Ftr +3 50%; Rog +5 60%. 1e Ftr 15 30%; Thf 13 40% Things look shitty in 1e, but lets see what happens.
Lvl 3, 2nd lvl spell 3.x DC 15; Ftr +4 50%; Rog +6 60%. 1e Ftr 16 35%; Thf No change. So far the 3.x classes are keeping pace, which is kind of boring. The 1e versions are still lower but also improving.
Lvl 5, 3rd lvl spell 3.x DC 16; Ftr +4 45%; Rog +7 60%. 1e Ftr 13 40%; Thf 45%. 3.x fighter is starting to lose ground.
Ok, I think you can see the trend, so let's just jump to..... level 15. Assuming the 3.x classes have use their 3 score adjustments in the relevant scores, 19s. Lvl 15, capped at 4th lvl spell 3.x DC 18; Ftr +9 60%; Rog +13 80%. 1e Ftr 6 75%; Thf 8 60%.
Using a level appropriate ability @ lvl 15. 3.x DC 10+7+4=21; Ftr 45%; 65%.
Bumping the 3.x classes to the min score to cast on level spells (8th lvl; 26) 3.x DC 26; Ftr +13 40%; Rog +17 65%. Remember, the fighter is improving their dex over other scores just to slowly lose ground.
This is again without magical items, except for the fudging for the last one. I could going through using Pathfinder Unchained as a guide on expected bonuses from magical items and compare it to the Monster Abilities by CR from PF.
Anyways, that was just a mechanical perspective on why ability based saves suck. You don't the iconic shield vs dragon breath.